On Corporal Punishment

Dear Country Yossi,

The way I see it: To Hit or Not to Hit. Some points:

1. Hitting is a strong medication, and when used sparingly is effective.

2. Whenever possible, the punishment should fit the crime. For example: Objects misused should be taken away; Children who disturb, should be sent out of the room. In this manner, children understand and don't feel overly punished. they know it's coming to them.

3. For chutzpah, I think a potch is a must. I think these days children speak disrespectfully because they never tasted a potch - which stops chutzpah on the spot - from the start. Parents are afraid to hit and end up arguing with their children and/or criticizing, condemning, blaming, shaming, etc.which causes severe emotional/mental damage to a child (and encourages arguments). A light slap with a comment, "You should never speak this way to a parent," will accomplish much more. (You can also tell the child, please repeat what you want to say respectfully, and help them if they need help.)

If a child can have the chutzpah to speak to a Rebbe in a disrespectful way which embarrasses the Rebbe, only a potch will do. The child must be stopped immediately (no arguing with a Rebbe). The child must feel what it's like to be embarrassed. And again, if used sparingly, it is effective. If used too often, children become immune to it.

Join project DERECH (416-782-4026). Many schools are working on teaching hilchos derech eretz every week. It's extremely helpful. Also, children should learn hilchos kibud av v'aim in school/yeshiva every year, not only in 12th grade.

A Mother in B.P. working hard on disciplining with love, and asking Hashem for help

Thank you for printing my previous letter. Since it is clear from R' Shapiro's reply that he does not wish to acknowledge even the aspects of Kiruv which we feel the same about, I don't see any purpose in seriously responding to such an onslaught.

However, I would like to point out to you, as the editor, several crucial factors which R' Shapiro seems to have overlooked.

1. In my original letter, I asked (you) if the emphasis on preventive measures was actually his, "or was it Rabbi Eli Teitelbaum's?" (This was by way of a footnote.) I also purposely did not use quotation marks for that sentence because I did not recall the exact quote verbatim, but rather the general thought.

2. In reference to my brother, I mentioned that I was "making a long story very, very short". Obviously then, I have been somewhat more exposed than one "who knows nothing about it" (to quote R' Shapiro).I've seen more than I cared to see, heard more than I cared to hear and know a lot more than I care to know. I don't believe I am merely "[someone] with an opinion and a brother in L.A... publicly sound[ing] off on what I feel is proper or not"!
Truthfully, if I were to allow my emotions to take over, I would cry real tears for the way this galus has assaulted all of our neshomos!

3. The "peirushim" which he mocks are not my own at all, but rather based on prior consultation with a chosheve ben Torah. I would never dare to expound on divrei chazal guided only by my own "personal feelings".

I can only hope that your readers are intuitive enough to have deduced this.

Well, thanks for listening.
CDU

First of all, thank you for providing us with a forum for discussing important community issues that gives Torahdik viewpoints a chance for full expression publicly, a freedom which is not usually available even in most other Jewish publications.

I'm writing to you now in regard to Nina Ackerman's article in your May issue that spoke about Rebbe/teacher brutality towards students. I'm glad that people are starting to speak up on this problem. It's really atrocious how often I see my or my acquaintances children come home with bloody lips (from being punched by a teacher in class), twisted ears and eyelids, bare-bottom cat hanger spankings, head-banging, etc. These occurrences (which I've verified, not just from hearsay of the children), aren't limited to any particular type of yeshiva or day school, but they seem to be more prevalent in some of the "frummer" schools. Apparently, either these schools can't afford to hire decent rebbeim or they figure that most of the parents (who are usually kollel or post-kollel type) can't afford to send their kidsanyplace else anyway.

Nor does it always help to complain to the principal. In some cases, the principal (people who are well-known and respected in the community) are THEMSELVES the culprits. I spoke to rabbonim about this and was told that they knew all about it and more, but they didn't feel that they had the power to stop it.

At any rate, principals are not comfortable admitting that their schoolsare less than perfect and will often deny the charges, or sometimes even justify it. As one put it to me, "I come from the old school. I believe in the old-fashioned method." One principal offered a parent a tuition discount if they wouldn't make an issue of it.

On the other hand, parents are often afraid to speak out for fear of being railroaded out of the school, while others (who have been lucky enough to have been spared the problem) get defensive about it. One mother got all indignant in defense of the yeshiva's honor when my wife complained to her that the first grade English teacher had been embarrassing the girls in her class (pointing them out as members of the "stupid row," etc.).

I suggest that an independent group of rabbonim be established that would investigate reports of abuse and expose these creeps and have them blacklisted from being involved in chinuch positions, or have legal charges brought against them when appropriate. Children should be taught that they can and should report abusive behavior to their parents.

Dear Country Yossi,

I recently came across a Sept. '94 issue of Country Yossi Family Magazine in which one of your readers wrote a letter expressing her disappointment during a shopping experience in a "heimishe store". She expressed some very strong, destructive remarks and contempt for fellow Jews.

Clearly, however disappointing an experience one may encounter, it is obvious that this person is experiencing a temper tantrum or is perhaps lacking spiritually. Yes, we do expect superior behavior from Klal Yisroel, but such a condemnation is inappropriate.

What prompted me to write this letter to you is that I am shocked that you printed that letter in your magazine! How could you acknowledge her demoralizing the purity and kedusha of Klal Yisroel from this shopping experience? There is room for mussar, but let's hear it from those whose derech is compatible with Torah chinuch or at least edit the letter so that it is "news that's fit to print" and in ways that are fit to print.
C.F. -Brooklyn

As a high school student myself of a Bais Yaakov school for girls, I'm quite taken aback by the article "A Question of Integrity".

I have never in all my years of school cheated or plan to in the near future, and never have I ever witnessed someone doing so either. I know that when a teacher asks students not to discuss the test with any other class, we don't.

The author also writes about recycled tests, but the halacha is, once a teacher gives back a test the students are able to use the test as they please. I also feel the statistics in this article are wrong. Out of a class of thirty, about one or two students cheat and very occasionally.